Thursday, January 16, 2014

Drinkers and Drunkards in Conversation

Mixing drinkers and drunkards together in conversation is like adding oil to water.  They will separate but only after the oily, rowdy mob have sullied the waters. It is the same in discussions of any sort and if a tavern is known for anything other than drinking, it is the fine conversations that can take place in conviviality.

My Bouncer is doing a good job keeping the trolls away.

In every blog there is the 'troll' issue, just as every Tavern has people turning up having already had a skinful of cheap and nasty brew. The troll's 'views' are usually just as incoherent as the drunkard's.

I was reminded of this by listening to a regular here, Bill. He was itemising the sorts of stupid, mindless things that the homosexual 'activists' say. They have learned their lessons in dog-rhetoric from the Feminists.

We love sharp pins in the Pin & Balloon bar, and Bill brings his own.

Over to Bill.

 Five Really Dumb Things the Activists Say
by Bill Muehlenberg 
One could easily write an entire book on all the really moronic and senseless things the homosexual activists say when they "argue" with us. Of course one has to use the word "argue" quite loosely here, since what the militants engage is can hardly be described as arguments - more like sophomoric rants in fact.
Now, I have to ask you, as you listen to Bill, that you widen your scope to include many of the different 'Activists' for various issues that surround the Tavern on a sunny day.  No doubt you will have stumbled into the path of some of particular note to yourselves.
So as you discuss or debate with these activists, bear in mind they will almost invariably throw some real doozies your way. These remarks will have very little to do with logic and rationality. They will not be actual arguments or well-reasoned claims. 
They will just be foolish attacks lacking in any merit. But this is just how the other side operates - time and time again.  
This is their standard modus operandi.  
Here then are five of these dopey claims you will likely hear over and over again in such discussions: 
1. You are just homophobic 
This is a classic from the other side. It is as typical as it is stupid.  
It is of course just a conversation stopper. It sure beats actually dealing with the issues and mounting an argument.  
It is simply an ad hominem attack, and the homosexual activists specialise in such attacks. Name-calling, mud-slinging and personal attacks are the primary weapons in their arsenal.
I had one just the other day. A 'fellow' Mensa member on facebook called me a racist. Why? I had posted up without any comment a scholarly article on IQ. The chap, a German I am supposing, objected to the study because it was published, in his view, in a journal of  which he disapproved. Therefore I was a racist. Forget the data !!

Hello !!

After all these years I discover I am a racist. !!
And the term itself is simply vacuous. It means nothing in this debate. 
No, I do not have a fear of the same, as the terms literally means. I do not fear others of the same sex. I do not fear other males.  
I will tell you what I do fear however: the destruction of marriage and family, the threat to our children, and the risk to society at large when we allow the radical homosexual agenda to run unchecked. 
2. You hate homosexuals 
More name-calling.  
What does speaking the truth about homosexuality have to do with hating anyone?  
Indeed, it is the most loving thing one can do in this case. Telling a homosexual that his dead-end lifestyle is a high-risk and dangerous affair, one that can be avoided if so chosen, is the most loving thing one can tell a homosexual. 
If a person is racing toward a cliff with certain death the impending result, the obvious and loving thing anyone can do is warn such a person. Indeed, you will do all you can to alert such a person to the dangers involved, and seek to avert disaster. To fail to do so is a failure to love the other person. 
And the simple truth is this: mere disagreement does not equal hate.  
The very heart of a free and democratic society is the ability to differ, to disagree, to express different points of view, without fear of the other side blasting you for "hate-speech," and using the heavy hand of the law to shut you up. 
That of course is not tolerance. That has nothing to do with acceptance and diversity.  
That has everything to do with totalitarianism: stamp out any contrary points of view, and criminalise any speech which dares to differ.  
That it seems to me is real hate. 
3. You are really a repressed homosexual 
I get this all the time. The activists actually seem to think this is some sort of sensible argument. Really! Indeed, as if to prove my point, I just had a guy post this on my site: 
 "Such vitriol repeatedly directed against homosexuals is almost invariably indicative of repressed homosexuality on the part of its instigator. Bill, how about stepping out of that closet and getting yourself some fresh air?"
To which I replied: 
"Thanks Todd. Such vitriol repeatedly directed against Christians is almost invariably indicative of repressed Christianity on the part of its instigator. Todd, how about stepping out of that closet and getting yourself some fresh air? 
Now there is a fine response. Turn the table and show just how silly the argument is.
 "Actually you must be a Christian, since I find it hard to believe that any homosexual activist would publicly embarrass himself with such a moronic claim. You might as well argue that those who stand against rape are actually rapists, or those who speak against pollution are in fact polluters. No wonder no one takes your side seriously with such imbecility."
Of course the list is endless hear: Those who are concerned about crime rates are in fact closet criminals.  
Those who oppose war are actually repressed militarists.  
Those who resist the tobacco industry the strongest are in fact three-pack-a-day-ers.  
Those who stand against racism are really members of the KKK.  
T hose who protest the loudest against Japanese whaling are actually Japanese whalers. 
Or as one wit put it on another site: "And surely you've noticed all the haughty vegans who condemn all who eat meat? Obviously all of them secretly run butcher shops." Yet the militants keep on using such incredibly idiotic "arguments". 
4. You are forcing your morality on me 
Umm, no - I am not forcing anything on anyone. To stand up for the well-being of children, to stand up for marriage and family, to stand up for the social good and basic morality is not forcing anything. It is called living in a democracy, and having the right to state one's point of view. 
Mark that. Use it yourself, if only to hold your temper with dolts.

To Stand up for ... is not forcing anything 
It is in fact the other side which is forcing its morality on everyone else.  
All over the Western world they are demanding that everyone bow in obeisance to their radical demands.  
Everywhere they are forcing those who disagree with them to violate their own consciences.
Everywhere we find those who refuse to bow the knee losing their jobs, being fined, an even being jailed.  
That sounds like forcing one's morality on others. All we are doing is seeking to defend what we highly value from the relentless attacks of the activists. 
And we did not start this fight 
We did not unleash a reign of terror on anyone who dares to disagree.  
But when things we treasure come under such ferocious attack, such as the institutions of marriage and family and the wellbeing of our children, then of course we will respond; of course we will stand up and defend such things from those attacking them. 
5. You should keep the state out of our bedrooms 
This is another silly furphy so often thrown out by the militants. If in fact they just wanted to do their thing in the privacy of their own bedrooms, no one would make a peep about it.  
But this is far more than mere private behaviour, done discreetly, impacting no one. 
This is about a very public social revolution in which everyone is impacted. As I have demonstrated elsewhere, we are all at risk because of the radical homosexual agenda.  
Everywhere the activists are forcing their lifestyle and their demands on hapless populations.
And the demolition job on things like marriage and our social fabric of course is not some mere private activity: it is a very real public activity with some very real public consequences.  
All societies have a right to withstand such threats and to champion long-held values and norms.
We have a right to stand up for historically proven institutions which help societies, help children, and help couples.  
Things like marriage are far too valuable to let go of without a fight. And the activists have made it clear that marriage and family and everything else are in fact in their scopes.  
They are in fact the ones using the state to promote and enforce their agendas. 
There are obviously many more such lame remarks which get thrown our way with appalling monotony. This is all standard operating procedure from the militants.  
They believe that if they keep throwing out these baseless and senseless accusations, they will simply overwhelm us, wear us down, and win by default. 
Admittedly it is frustrating and time-consuming to deal with these hollow clichés over and over again, but we must proclaim and defend truth even when it becomes tiresome and tedious.  
We cannot let the activists win by default. So keep on keeping on, and learn to recognise these thread-bare "arguments" as they get thrown in your face.

A lengthy speech and deserving  of a few clear pints of refreshing Grace.

In MY Tavern we welcome anyone. Many are called and this is an outpost on the road.

We get homosexuals and feminists, racists, in fact sinners of all types. We even get overly- angry Men's Rights Advocates and strong-minded Pastors like Bill ! They are all welcome when they are not already drunk on their own self-interested bile and especially when they are decent folk who are at the end of their tethers.

The Ale I serve here comes from the Best Supplier. It calms and clarifies.

It is clean and refreshing.

The wicked HATE it.



  1. Hi Chris,

    I just saw your comment on Bill Muehlenberg's blog, and I thought I should stop in and correct a common misconception.

    Like Bill, you seem to be labouring under the mistaken view that name-calling is the same as an "ad hominem". It isn't. If I say you are an idiot, that is name-calling. If I say you are an idiot, therefore your argument is incorrect, that is an ad hominem.

    See the difference?


    1. Clarity is always useful, Tim. One can also say that using a name-call in place of an argument is also considered to be an ad hominum. Playing the man rather than the ball.

      But a pint is on the bar for you Sir.

  2. Thanks for the pint... but I find it best to use words as per their actual meanings. and name-calling in place of an argument is called "name-calling in place of an argument". Or, as stated on the very helpful Wikipedia, "mere verbal abuse in the absence of an argument, however, is not ad hominem nor any kind of logical fallacy."

    1. Fine. Now how about addressing the topic instead of being put in danger of anyone suspecting that you are diverting attention away from the main argument.

  3. I'm coming round to the point of view that they're not even worth addressing any more.

    1. Unfortunately they are persistent. We must continue swatting flies too.

  4. Intellect.
    It's why I discriminate between the word homosexual, and the "new" usurpation of "gay.
    Generally, I attach the former to "keep "the State" out of our bedroom" folk.
    Of course, that was merely usurped by disingenuous nose-in-the-tent for (ie.) "openly serve"(I'm STILL unsure what that's supposed to imply) in the military when "don't ask, don't tell" just simply wasn't enough.
    I attach the latter to the subset of homosexual, AND OBTW lesbian, and..uh..bisexual, AND er...simple whiners, AND *ahem*"other allies" that "Keep "the state" to ENFORCE "special" exceptions in public decorum for ME" folk.

    At least, that's what I tell my merely homosexual acquaintances.
    Such folk rarely behave in a manner to elicit "That's so... gay" from me.
    Um...nancy, daisy, queen, "(do you) Clutch your pearls much?"...maybe.
    (ie)" Faggot" is a word I reserve for clearly disingenuous and insufferable whiners, regardless of their actual bedroom proclivities with others (if any).

    Called "Racist", or it's inevitable "academic" humanities supplicants when exposed to be simply ad hominum, (unrealized invisible white privilege utilization) is simply a dog whistle for me, commanding "Ignorant, delusional, do not engage further". .

    1. As I pointed out, the style of denigration, dismissal, distraction and so forth used by the Queer lobby is common to many 'activists'. As a advocate for men and quite opposed to feminism, I even see the same tactics used by the less verbally able men's rights folk. It is depressing.

      However we cannot simply avoid it. We have to confront it. Avoiding addressing the style is like ignoring the common cold. It WILL get you even if it can be shaken off for a short time by some methods.

  5. "We get homosexuals and feminists, racists, in fact sinners of all types." I thought we'd risen above that sort of homophobic commentry amongst intelligent society.

    1. Oh dear. In what manner is such address 'phobic'. I know of no-one who has any atavistic fear of homosexuals and here I hear you using the word and simply demonstrating the point Bill makes.

      Here we call a spade a spade. In Intelligent society we don't use 'homophobic'. That is for the sheeple who simply repeat mantras. Our society, in all its hues does not rise in this present. It is descending, fairly rapidly down a slippery slope. Grab the sides Free Man. Put your feet down hard.

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Ne meias in stragulo aut pueros circummittam.

Our Bouncer is a gentleman of muscle and guile. His patience has limits. He will check you at the door.

The Tavern gets rowdy visitors from time to time. Some are brain dead and some soul dead. They attack customers and the bar staff and piss on the carpets. Those people will not be allowed in anymore. So... Be Nice..