tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post1476196533073301067..comments2023-09-06T22:30:02.061+10:00Comments on The Knight & Drummer: Immigration: Right Way and Wrong Way.Amfortashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07474382097575605017noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-52873072861262696052018-01-07T15:36:16.617+11:002018-01-07T15:36:16.617+11:00No worries, I just thought I either didn't pos...No worries, I just thought I either didn't post it correctly or a glitch, lost in cyberspace - thank you! :)Chrysalishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09972571880025416943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-82092644806198388022018-01-07T14:57:07.103+11:002018-01-07T14:57:07.103+11:00My apologies. This comment attached itself to anot...My apologies. This comment attached itself to another poster/commenter. Corrected now.Amfortashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474382097575605017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-23127119785713615552018-01-07T14:36:22.224+11:002018-01-07T14:36:22.224+11:00Dfor D - well, I'm not sure what happened to ...Dfor D - well, I'm not sure what happened to the PS I provided earlier with links to sources (not previously putting those in myself!), but they can be seen on my blog.<br /><br />Check out the link on Harlan - 91% white, 23% of families below the poverty level, 32% total population below the poverty line, and 41% of the general population are married (the US national average is roughly slightly higher than that, ranging from 41% to 55% depending upon sources).<br /><br />And I can tell you as an absolute fact they are engaging in crime and violence because there are no jobs and the area is economically deprived - and are viewed as"unhireable" elsewhere because of lack of education and the "hillbilly" and violent reputation.<br /><br />(Which lends credence to the theory that any time we label a group "unhireable" because we think they are _____, then they are indeed economically oppressed.) <br /><br />Interestingly, and semi-related to your point, they also have more arrests than the rest of the state for domestic violence, but for that link, I'd have to dig a bit because it's been a while since I've seen it.<br /><br />However, I will agree that it is perhaps multifactorial, with economic hardship being the best indicator, as well as regional and cultural values also playing a role. <br /><br />And though I agree that having both parents for a child for guidance, I'm not sure how or why not having a father (or mother) in the home would lead to crime, but I'd be interested in your sources for that cause-effect theory? <br /><br />But let's suppose that your theory is correct - unfortunately, up until reconstruction after The Civil War, state and federal government did not allow African-Americans to marry, and ripped children from their parents and brothers and sisters, and slaveowners often considered female slaves property and had "unofficial" offspring with them (a fact which DNA has only recently been able to verify, using "Y" genes and mitochondrial DNA to trace back to exact fathers) - so we didn't help to encourage their marriage ourselves (or often respect our own marriages) ;)<br /><br />As for legal marriage, I personally do not believe the government should define our marriages one way or the other, straight or gay. It's really none of their business and a religious issue, IMO. <br /><br /><br /><br />Chrysalishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09972571880025416943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-67506674019088471662018-01-07T11:36:46.983+11:002018-01-07T11:36:46.983+11:00So is it possible that it is NOT fact that crime i...<em>So is it possible that it is NOT fact that crime is about race or religion, and instead tend to happen in areas that lack economic opportunity?</em><br /><br />There are other factors that seem to be very very significant when it comes to crime. The destruction of the family is a biggie. This increases crime in many ways, direct and indirect. The absence of strong father figures is probably the most crucial.<br /><br />One of the greatest tragedies of modern times was the destruction of the black family in the US. In just a few short decades blacks went from being people with a strong commitment to family life to being people living in communities with virtually no family life at all. And the state cannot replace family life - when it tries top do so the results are disastrous.<br /><br />The American black family was destroyed by a combination of factors. The collapse of Christianity, the easy availability of contraception that allowed consequence-free sex, the ready availability of abortion, easy divorce, the removal of the stigma on illegitimacy, the tidal wave of degeneracy in the entertainment industry, consumerism, the rise of the drug culture. These things affected all races but there was an extra factor as far as blacks were concerned - the deliberate creation of a culture of racial grievance. <br /><br />Being poor doesn't lead to criminality. But being poor and having no family life certainly does lead to criminality. American blacks really have been victimised but not in the way they (and liberals) think. They've been victimised by policies engineered by liberals.<br /><br />As for Muslims, problems with criminality are likely caused by the collision of totally incompatible cultures, and by a perception on the part of some Muslims that western culture is degenerate (and they're not wrong about that).<br /><br />I agree with you that it's dubious to assume simplistic links between race and religion and crime, and I agree that many self-described conservatives (who aren't conservatives at all) do push that line. And these self-described conservatives have often contributed to the problems by pushing a materialistic worldview that reduces us all to consumers or cheap labour. Such links between race and religion and crime may exist but the situation is much more complicated.<br /><br />The lesson of the past half century is that social engineering always turns out badly. dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-86738665304692212552018-01-07T09:01:13.120+11:002018-01-07T09:01:13.120+11:00You want sauce? HP is always on the table in the r...You want sauce? HP is always on the table in the restaurant.Amfortashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474382097575605017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-54315919179722987182018-01-07T06:04:02.007+11:002018-01-07T06:04:02.007+11:00PS - I neglected to mention my sources myself. As...PS - I neglected to mention my sources myself. As I mentioned under a post below, my best friend is in public health for the CDC - neonatal care (which is of course affected by both drug usage and crime/violence).<br /><br />Kentucky is "unofficially" the "OxyContin" capital; thus why TV shows like "Justified" focused on the opioid epidemic in Harlan, Kentucky (also known as "Bloody Harlan" due to the amount of murders during the Coal Wars) and the associated gun violence.<br /><br />Regardless, the CDC's research thus far on the top 5 states in the nation leading the opioid epidemic...<br /><br />https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/statedeaths.html<br /><br />Their statistics proving that the majority of Americans overdosing on opioids are white...<br /><br />https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/overdose.html<br /><br /><br />That although doctors are more likely to prescribe opioids to white patients...<br /><br />https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/prescribing.html<br /><br />... only 40% of those opioids are obtained from legal means...<br /><br />https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/index.html<br /><br />This is why President Trump declared an "opioid epidemic," but without funding it. In fact, there have been freezes and cuts to the CDC's funding already, with more proposed. <br /><br />As for statistics on Harlan itself, I have not viewed the data in a year or so, but apparently it is now 91% white and the median income is $17K, 23% being below the poverty line.<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan,_Kentucky#Demographics<br /><br />As for the statistics on the percentage of Republicans in that region, being of Christian faith, and the largest percentage of welfare recipients in the state, I have seen these statistics before but it may take me a bit to find them, if you'd like them?<br /><br />Or you can take my word for it on this one :) (As I said, my father is from there and my best friend works for the CDC.)<br /><br /><br /><br />Chrysalishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09972571880025416943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-86989494884843387492018-01-07T03:05:36.778+11:002018-01-07T03:05:36.778+11:00Recent crime waves and atrocities here have been l...<em> Recent crime waves and atrocities here have been laid at the door of just two sorts: Muslim and African </em><br /><br />Is that a fact ;) Sources, please? :)<br /><br />Perhaps living in Oz, limited in information about the US, you are not aware of the opiate drug epidemic we have in the US and the murders and deaths as the result of it - or that these people are predominantly white.<br /><br />Or that the "OxyContin Superhighway" depicted in TV shows like "Justified" is accurate in that Eastern Kentucky is the headquarters for the "pillhead" highway, as well as their propensity to settle disputes with guns and a corrupt local government and law enforcement. <br /><br />(This finds its roots in the coal wars and being forced of their lands by bribed local law enforcement and government officials by coal companies - everyone from Granny on down had a shotgun to meet "the lawman" with, who came to force them off their land.)<br /><br />My dad is from Harlan. It is 95% white. It's is 96% Republican. There are few, if any, non-Christians.<br /><br /> Additionally, it has the largest region of welfare recipients in the state because of lack of jobs there and nearly all claim to be Christian.<br /><br />Oh and with mention of Trump in this post and the one below about the stock market gains (that never, ever trickle down on the average American from a corporate level, it's local or small business) - still wondering when his promise of bringing coal back, along with those jobs, is going to happen (*snicker* - not at you, but with Trump stating as fact that coal was making a comeback).<br /><br /><br />So is it possible that it is NOT fact that crime is about race or religion, and instead tend to happen in areas that lack economic opportunity?<br /><br />Because it does seem that Harlan and the opiate epidemic and violence at least provides a variable in that race/religion hypothesis.<br /><br />Additionally, the mass shooters in the Congressional, Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, and Aurora were white, Christian US Citizens. And serial killers are stastistically white. As are the declarers of war.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying white christians are worse, I'm just saying perhaps equating violence and crime with race may be a flawed theory. <br /><br />Now, back to Christianity and law, here's a question - what should be more valued, the words of Christ or church doctrine?<br /><br />Correct me if I'm wrong, but I take it you are a fan of Old Testament Law (just judging from your stance on LGBTQ), yes? <br /><br />Because on the subject of immigration, the same Levitican law that prohibits homosexuality (among other things we now do every day), say this (Leviticus 19:33)<br /><br /><em><strong>33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God. </strong></em> <br /><br />Note that there's one OT church law Jesus didn't tamper with - in fact he made it one of 2 of his only commandments - "Love thy neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39).<br /><br />In fact, he said that all commandment and man-made law hung on the prophets, and he changed any OT/manmade laws that did not, i.e., healing on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1-6), as well as removing entirely from OT/church law, "An eye for an eye" (Matthew 5:38-48).<br /><br />Not only did these man-made laws not hang on "loving thy neighbor as thyself," but "An eye for an eye" was engraved law on Hammurabi's Code Stone in Babylonia, the captive culture of the Israelites at the time, who didn't believe in an afterlife; therefore, all punishment was swift and harsh.<br /><br />Hammurabi's code stone predates Moses and both the Torah and Talmud - and that is a fact, not belief :)<br /><br />Thus, much of OT law - and Sharia law - were laws both religions actually incorporated from the Babylonians, who didn't even believe in our God or an afterlife, so Jesus specifically repudiated that verse because of it. <br /><br />Once again, it is possible that belief may "trump" IQ :)Chrysalishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09972571880025416943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-34454741951166353172018-01-06T19:23:57.779+11:002018-01-06T19:23:57.779+11:00I cannot argue against that and thank you for your...I cannot argue against that and thank you for your insights.Amfortashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474382097575605017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-67364214505871354272018-01-06T19:15:58.905+11:002018-01-06T19:15:58.905+11:00I always understood that Church and State are sepa...<em>I always understood that Church and State are separate.</em><br /><br />If Church and State are separate they will come into conflict and experience suggests the State will win. The State does not permit the survival of rivals for power. So I think an argument could be made that separating Church and State is a mistake.<br /><br />The doctrine of separation of Church and State has been used by the enemies of the Church to inflate the power of the State and diminish the role of the Church. In fact that was the intention behind it. It's one of those fundamentally anti-Christian Enlightenment principles that we take for granted because secularism has been winning the Culture War for the past two hundred years.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-9328087700309923502018-01-06T18:57:17.141+11:002018-01-06T18:57:17.141+11:00And the points regarding immigration?
The idea th...<em>And the points regarding immigration?</em><br /><br />The idea that a nation state should exist for the benefit of its own citizens is fine but I don't see it as Christian. I don't see nation states as a Christian concept. More of an anti-Christian concept. Modern nation states took the place of the concept of Christendom, and that was perhaps a bad thing.<br /><br />I think it's fine to argue that immigration is bad (I think immigration is bad) but I think it's tricky to advance it as a Christian principle. Universalism is pretty much baked into the cake with Christianity.<br /><br />And the concepts of national sovereignty and the rights of nation states are fairly central to a debate on immigration. If nation states are anti-Christian that raises a difficulty.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-1210500047463225672018-01-06T16:06:59.688+11:002018-01-06T16:06:59.688+11:00The 'seperation' issue is a secular one. I...The 'seperation' issue is a secular one. It was never a Christian edict. I agree with it, mind you, and Christ Himself recognised Caesar having a role. But God, His Revelations and His Commands should 'inform' the decisions and management of the State. <br /><br />In terms of the positions taken by Aquinas, above, it is clear that he is looking at this 'informing' from a practical point of view.<br /><br />Personally, I see his distinctions as realistic as well as Christian.Amfortashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474382097575605017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-1353029294027012002018-01-06T13:54:20.131+11:002018-01-06T13:54:20.131+11:00I always understood that Church and State are sepa...I always understood that Church and State are separate.<br />The Greek born Constantine may have been thinking of his forefathers'S democratic ways of thinking, therefore he proclaimed Christianity a State religion: his first mistake. Christianity is a way of life,not a religion in the strict sense of the word, but in fairness to him Christianity became the conscience behind European/Western civilization in spite of human nature's many weaknesses. If forced to choose a way if life, I know which one I would pick.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-40606661192619317522018-01-06T11:50:58.500+11:002018-01-06T11:50:58.500+11:00And the points regarding immigration? And the points regarding immigration? Amfortashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474382097575605017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776872662073607566.post-68821994914899034952018-01-06T10:06:24.016+11:002018-01-06T10:06:24.016+11:00And whose well-being are we talking about? The cit...<em>And whose well-being are we talking about? The citizens of the state. </em><br /><br />But if you go back to the beginnings of Christianity the state was the Roman Empire. Not the same sort of state as modern nation states.<br /><br />If you look at medieval Christianity, well there were no modern nation states at that time. There was Christendom, which was kind of a Christian version of the Roman Empire.<br /><br />Christianity is a religion that pre-dates any concept of a nation state as we know it today.<br /><br />I'm sceptical that Catholicism can be made compatible with nationalism. The rise of the nation state coincided with the beginnings of the decline of Christianity.<br /><br />Christianity is definitely compatible with kingship, and with loyalty to a king (I'm talking about real kings not the absurd constitutional monarchies of recent times). But kingship is quite different from a modern nation state.<br /><br />I'm also sceptical that Christianity can be made compatible with democracy. I'm not familiar with the passages in Scripture in which Jesus tells his disciples that they should decide what to do next by having a vote on it. And did he tell them to have an election to choose the leader of the Church after he was gone? I really don't think Jesus was much of a democrat.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.com